What Is an Hourglass Stance Is in the Martial Arts

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In Hung gar nosotros practise a lot of stance training. The matter about stance preparation is that it is not about beingness tough or building toughness. Although you lot exercise demand to exist tough to do it. Its about building muscle memory and body awareness and so that over time you will non only learn how to flow from stance to stance when moving, but besides learn how the stances allow the creation and delivery of power in locks and throws and strikes. In brusque you can't practice too much stance grooming.
The v major stances from hung ga in capricious order. The "shadows" on the ground bespeak the distribution of weight in the stances.

(1)

(2)

(3) on left (iv) on right

(five)

Note: personaly I would say that the tail os should exist tucked under a little and the hips rotated forrad, rather than "pushed forward" as stated in the illustration.

If you are NOT a Hung practitioner do yous use any of these stances anyway? If and so what do yous call them? Do you even give them a name in your art? I have seen stance one and stance three wrestling, and Aikedo for example.

What other principle stances do you take in your art? how are they used?

Last edited: Mar 26, 2016

Only recently started training in Lau Gar, and equus caballus riding opinion is my own personal hell at the moment! Found this video that goes through a routine of the stances in Lau Gar:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xE0IsVs0CQ"]Lau Gar kung fu drill, twenty steps - YouTube[/ame]

Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2016
Hannibal Weep HAVOC and permit slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

Yes but not as stances
Stances themselves are fleeting movements in time and never stock-still - something that somewhere many in the TMA world lost sight of
I practice long fist kung fu and recognise all of them except the last one. ane. Front end stance, ii. Riding/equus caballus opinion, three. Unicorn, iv. Cat.
The other main opinion not here is back stance which is like 4 only with more weight on the front end foot (nosotros train to accomplish roughly an fourscore-20 spread of weight betwixt the back and front leg) heels at 90 degrees (l-shape). Back stance is longer too - one and half shoulder widths between the feet.

We use stances as part of training to build leg strength and flexibility. The aim is to be able to do longer and lower stances every bit a mark of better leg forcefulness and flexibility. We train using static stances and moving from stance to opinion in patterns.

Stances grade an important office of the way nosotros practise forms and nosotros have to move through the form with good attention to stances. We likewise apply them in sparring drills.

I find opinion training incredibly useful.
aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

There are stances for fighting, which are what you describe here. And in that location are stances for training, which is what people unremarkably remember of. That is the strength building aspect of stance training- property your stance. I have found static opinion training has improved my MA's overall a bully deal. (I dropped off lately- I need to get back to it.)
I am lucky enough that my school teaches both the fluid moving nature of stances in application and the static training as well.

I discover that people who don't understand TMA (not yous Hannibal) often misinterpret things meant for preparation purposes and brand judgments based on their limited agreement. I agree with you lot that it doesn't help that probably many TMA schools accept lost sight of the difference and don't teach the complete spectrum - spreading the misconception.
aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Pupil Moderator Supporter

Choy Li Fut has all the standard TCMA stances.
Horse
Bow (Which is really called something else traditionally. I will have to become look it up. We end up using this term equally it is more common in the general TCMA world.)
Cat
Cross Footstep/ Stealing Horse Stepping forward is the cross step, stepping back is the stealing horse. Same basic terminate position. It is just the transition and where it is pointed at/ away from the opponent that is the departure.
Twist Equus caballus
Crane
Slanted Horse
Kneeling Horse Surprised no ane has mentioned this one nevertheless. I know information technology is common in the TCMA community, isn't it? (I wish my kneeling horse looked even remotely like this prototype. Mine is pretty bad due to my knee bug.)

Edit- found this good list of CLF stances with the Chinese and English names
http://world wide web.sacramentochoilaifut.com/techniques-and-terminology---stances.html

Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
Hannibal Weep HAVOC and permit slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

There is truth in that simply even so called "grooming stances" aren't always "just" for that
Horse opinion - preparation or gainsay for instance?
Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

Also worth mentioning holding a opinion is fine and very skilful for attribute development - that speaks to my earlier Point that many have "lost" (or were never told) the application
aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Pupil Moderator Supporter

We are taught both. My Sifu talks about how depression stances are not but for training, simply that the low part is not something you hold in sparring/ fighting. It is transitional.
All stances, the way I am taught, have both training aspects and fighting aspects. It is how you utilise it and when you use information technology that makes the divergence between it being grooming and applicable to fighting.

Yep, I see how I worded that and it sounded a chip off from what I meant. I meant to say All stances tin be used for preparation and for fighting. But the way I originally phrased it, it didn't come across that way quite correct.

Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
In Goju-ryu karate nosotros used Japanese terms for the stances. In Kajukenbo (at least our school) we apply English terms.
1) Zenkutsu-dachi (front or bow stance)

2) If weight on inside edge of anxiety, with feet turned out 45 degrees like the middle example in the diagram, this is Shiko-dachi (straddle-leg or square horse stance). If the weight is on the outside edge of the feet, with feet mostly pointing forward like the right example in the diagram, this is Kiba-dachi (horse or rider opinion)

three) Non much used in Goju, but other forms of karate have it in some forms, it is Kosa-dachi (crossing stance)

4) Nekoashi-dachi (true cat opinion)

5) Not used in karate every bit far every bit I know. Still, we did have Sanchin-dachi (hourglass stance). Similar but with one human foot more forward so there is a clear lead and rear leg. Funny y'all mention tucking the tailbone in on the pigeon toe stance. We had a exam, poke yourself in the barrel cheeks. If the butt cheeks were firm then you lot were doing information technology correct, but if they were soft like cottage cheese, you weren't doing information technology right.

Okay, I would say we utilize stance grooming for 3 chief purposes:

1. First is simply for conformity and following directions (could be related to subject area building). Basically the stance preparation is to run across how well someone can follow directions and conform with others. The odd ball is easier to spot and the instructor can point out areas that need improvement.

2. Second, equally a form of conditioning to strengthen different sets of muscles and build stamina. Even to accept hits while in stances to see where the weak points are in balance and focus. I gauge this means toughness is involved.

3. Thirdly, to learn virtually how to conceal the footwork. There are harmonies between the feet and hands, knees and elbows, hips and shoulders, with the waist in the middle. A trained centre can tell your footwork by seeing your upper body, permit them to predict your movements. Conversely, stance grooming can be used to conceal your true intentions. For example, let'south say that the enemy tin't see your feet or legs just tin can see your upper body. When moving into a cat stance, your hips are back, but to the enemy they tin't immediately tell if you lot are moving backwards, attacking backwards, sprawling, or one-half-moving backwards. They might think you are moving backwards, but you merely go half-style and motility forrad to counter strike as they kickoff to come in. Another case with the front stance is the shoulders are mostly squared, then again the enemy doesn't know which side of your body will attack right abroad or if y'all are in a wide base or standard base or one human foot frontwards but by looking at your upper body.

The principal point hither is that your footwork determines much of how your upper torso moves effectively. You can learn to muffle your footwork from those looking at your upper body for some kind of telegraph of your intentions.

The bodily motility is not nearly stances, the footwork really comes down to Movement AT THE HIPS AND LET THE Feet GO WHERE THEY NATURALLY GO.

We don't want to use stance training to build muscle memory for where the legs and feet become. Instead information technology is most the harmonies between the lower and upper trunk so your feet have the liberty to move where they naturally go. Where they naturally go, however, is not to be predictable but should exist curtained.

I establish this video to show hopefully just how footwork can be concealed (in other words, how you can't tell past the upper body movements how the feet actually are moving). Wait particularly at the fight starting at one:28, the following information technology, and the kata starting at 4:24.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lxxYzrh0QE"]Teruo Chinen & Morio Higaonna series Role 5 - YouTube[/ame]

Chinen Sensei was my first karate instructor. Higaonna Sensei was who I got my black belt under via my instructor Hartwig Sensei.

Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
Do I use stances? Yeah I do. I use them for training similar most traditional sort of MA people do, and I use them in sparring, much as Hannibal described - except I would claim that one time I prefer a "fighting stance" (an organisation and fishing of my body and anxiety that is deliberate and distinguishable from "not fighting stance") I am using stance piece of work.
I tend to claim that my default, neutral "fighting opinion" is in fact a equus caballus opinion, but that seems to upset people.
One interesting thing I noticed was that when I was training TMA, preparation the stance itself was emphasized quite a lot. We'd be encouraged to check our opinion in the mirror, to maintain information technology for long, tedious kata. When I switched to battle and BJJ, I got told very footling almost my stance. "Bract your torso more" was almost it. Merely I was surprised to see that during my grappling and striking I kinda naturally hitting on, and so abased, traditional karate stances very quickly. I wouldn't even necessarily exist thinking about it, I'd only move my anxiety to really throw a guy and boom, cat stance. I wouldn't get feedback from my sensei about my stance, but I would get feedback from my body either succeeding or failing to do the things I wanted to do.
Hip throw, shoulder throw, embracing throw, ...

Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
And yet the arts which do those throws the all-time very rarely if ever do anything resembling stance preparation
According to the head of our system there are no stances, at that place is only movement. Now, in that location are plenty of positions that nosotros move through that I recognize every bit cat stances or forward stances or neutral stances from my kenpo and karate training, only we don't railroad train them every bit stance work. Nosotros railroad train it as footwork and body motion, we railroad train it as correct movement from the showtime.
Y'all know, I think I'd consider uchikomi and the like to exist "stance training" more it is anything else. And the effectively points of positional control on the ground counts too. But evidently they're non what you call up of when you consider opinion training in TMA.
I've often idea about putting a long solo karate fashion kata kata together covering something completely off topic similar eating breakfast or manipulating a burglarize. Yells, random slowdowns and tense-ups, deep stances, everything. Sort of an illustration of how lightheaded and abstract training is in some schools.
I bet people would come up with all sorts of martial meanings and "applications" for the movements if you didn't explain it to them, and you performed it dramatically enough.
Chinese wrestling trains "solo" too when training partner is not available. It's not static stance training but dynamic stance training. IMO, information technology' better to practise the following drill 200 times than to stand on horse stance for 15 minutes. Yous volition get better result through "dynamic stance training".
- Running is better than walking.
- Walking is better than standing.
- Standing is improve than ...
- ...

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/lookout man?v=wwjyEPHn-GY&characteristic=youtu.be"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwjyEPHn-GY&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/scout?v=9JgpKy6HcFI&feature=youtu.be"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JgpKy6HcFI&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
Better in what sense? Doesn't it depend on what you need to learn at the time ? Have the depression lead leg opinion used in your first video. If you are non doing that stance properly you are not going to be able to utilise it to movement correctly. Isn't static stance grooming a valid way to explore balance and form in stance alongside dynamic training used to explore movement and transition from 1 stance to another?
Doesn't static stance grooming provide a mutually agreed reference point that can exist used to amend communicate the complexities of move?

Final edited: Mar 26, 2016
Presume you have already passed your learning stage and go into your training stage.
If yous have limit amount of training time and y'all take the following 3 training options.

i. Use hip throw to throw your opponent over your head 200 times (weight training + footwork preparation + leg strength/endurance training).
ii. Repeat your hip throw solo drill 200 times by yourself (footwork training + leg strength/endurance training).
3. Stand in horse stance for fifteen minutes (leg strength/endurance training).

It's non difficult to see that i > ii > 3.

Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
Hannibal Cry HAVOC and permit skid the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

Pretty much